Leading Better Everyday with Jake Thompson

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[SPEAKER_04]: All right, welcome to the generational exchange.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Today our topic is leading better every day with our special guest, Jake Thompson.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Before we jump in, have you ever wondered what happened when you're bringing together four seasons, season professionals, each with their own unique generational lens on the business world?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Let you've come to the right place.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Join our hosts or in their 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s as we tackle the big questions, share decades of combined experience and unravel the threads of today's professional challenges.

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[SPEAKER_04]: plus in select episodes like today.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We'll be joined by insightful guest panelists to offer even deeper dive into specific topics.

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[SPEAKER_04]: expect Clever takes engaging debates in a healthy dose of humor and a few stories proving wisdom is ageless.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So with that, let's jump in.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Before we introduce our guests, I always like to introduce our panel and get us started.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Starting us off, I'm going to move things around this week.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to work in backwards order.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Starting with representing our lovely 60s is the wonderful Mark Russell.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Hi, Mark Russell.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Good day.

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[SPEAKER_03]: How's everyone doing today?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And then representing our 50s is myself, Chris turn over.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to move through.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And then representing the 40s is Jeremy Davidson.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Hi, Jeremy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How do you?

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[SPEAKER_04]: And then last, but certainly not least representing the 30s is our dear friend Red suits.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Who's now 31 from not mistaken.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Ones are a creek in my friend.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He's catching up with us.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's you're like aging faster than we are.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's wonderful.

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[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so now let me tell you about our guest.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Jake Thompson is an award-winning motivational keynote speaker, leadership performance coach, and an author based in Dallas Fort Worth.

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[SPEAKER_04]: As a founder of Compete Every Day specializes in delivering high-energy talks and workshops on leadership, competitive mindset, grit, and team culture.

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[SPEAKER_04]: As signature, CED, compete every day model, provides actionable strategies to help organizations and individuals boost performance, and achieve long-term results.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Jates programs have to size practical in implementable steps easy for me to say over superficial motivation focusing on self-competition accountability and resilience.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He's the author of two leadership books compete every day and lead better now.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And if that weren't enough, he's also the host of the compete every day podcast, which is one of the most top rated podcasts out there.

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[SPEAKER_04]: A TCU graduate with an MBA from the University of Dallas, Jake also offers performance coaching and weekly content through podcasts and as weekends separate winners email.

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[SPEAKER_04]: His work addresses the gap in leadership training as he sites a 2021 survey showing that 58% of managers receive no management training and 63% of millennials feel their leadership skills are underdeveloped.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So with all that, welcome, Jake.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks Chris.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I need I need to start bringing you to events.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I love to set up take you really right in.

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[SPEAKER_04]: This is great.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's we got a bunch of questions for you.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully we'll see where it takes us.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But Mark, I think you're going to kick us off for the episode today.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so, Jacob, I love the the reference being a Gallup certified coach and everything.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So that one really resonated and in your book, you know, you obviously really focused in on that lack of management training and managers are pretty much thrown into the free.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So from your perspective,

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[SPEAKER_03]: What hit you seeing especially over the last couple of years, even though those statistics have been around for a while, are people making progress?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and no, one of the studies that we've talked about, we actually was sharing with the group the other day of North American leaders, is that 71% of people between 2021 and 2023 that left their job without another job in hand did so because their direct manager failed to give them feedback or appreciate them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like that was what they felt.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There were no feedback, no appreciation.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Those are two things that are 100% in a manager's control.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But most times we don't think about it because just do your job, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so there are people who have done a really good job of this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There are organizations who are investing in it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there's a lot who aren't.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot who aren't is because we're too busy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have the budget.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Or on the flip side, probably the problem that we didn't have 20 years ago at this problem is there's almost too much information.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There's a million different certifications.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Google leadership trainer and you don't know who to pick and everybody's talking about it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so there's probably even a paralysis binalysis that goes on like the clients that we've talked to and worked with over the last year I've worked with some in global companies, North American leaders.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm one of the first people they've ever brought in to actually train their people on leadership.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Worked out last week, I was in Fort Lauderdale working with an organization.

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[SPEAKER_02]: As the second time we've worked together this year, I was working with a new division.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was 20 of their North American leaders, their top leaders in all of North America, and they were just starting this leadership cohort for a six-month journey.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like they had been given very basic management skills.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And now they're like, we should probably level you up.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the guys in there made the comment, he was like, well, what about the people below us and the ones below them?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I kind of told him, I was like, hey, listen, I think they're planning stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But if we don't get it right at the top, it doesn't matter what we do at the bottom.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because some organizations, as you've seen this as well, Mark, they'll bring somebody like me and train our new leaders.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Let's set them up for success and we can do a lot, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: We can equip them with management skills, basic leadership skills, get them going.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But if the people above them don't have those same skills or that same foundation, it's going to create all sorts of frustrations and problems with the net culture.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I've seen some organizations run with it, but I've seen a lot more who aren't.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So Jake, I'm really agreed, you know, 110% of what you were sharing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Where do you think the disconnect is?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Is it maybe some generational because of a lack of communication?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm sure that probably a high number of managers probably feel like, oh, I am giving that positive feedback every day, but they haven't asked the question.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Rhett, are you are you are you agreement I think it's a couple of things so the first is I think it's a lack of self awareness and I think all of the research says this When for example, one of the groups we were talking about growth mindset and any and Carol Dwight's work on it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: of the number of leaders who believe they have and report a growth mindset is over 85 percent, but when they ask their teams, it's under 40.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a disconnect between what we think we are and what everybody's like, and your 360 assessment will say differently.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the first.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The second is I believe it's a survivor bias, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: If you think about it, if you were promoted into management leadership, you're thrown in the deep end.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You figure out how to swim.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You get through the next four to five years, 10 years, it's clunky.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But the ones who didn't that were just like, I don't want any part of this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm switching careers, I get fired wherever they're gone.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So because you survived, you have this mentality that one I know it, or be they're going to figure it out too.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Without realizing like you kind of lucked out and figuring out how to swim, and most people don't.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think it's the combination of the two, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think if there's a lack of self-awareness of a lot of leaders that think that they're doing the job, but to your point, they're not actually communicating it effectively.

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[SPEAKER_02]: or doing it in a way that's resonating and the second is I think they have this survivorship bias that what you just do at this way this is you know I figured it out you'll figure it out and I honestly think that's no different than a lot of what we see from an advice standpoint online like we look at people what your morning routine is a hyper-former how do you handle this as CEO?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And we have people that are just starting their leadership journey like your first management job like you're not going to have the same morning routine as somebody getting ready to retire right or of the CEO or the entrepreneurs doing their own thing now because that's not the morning routine they had at your position.

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[SPEAKER_02]: they were working in the 50 hours.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They were taking the extra time to learn this stuff like there's all of that thing and so we have these misconceptions and so I think that's a lot of it is there's not a lot of people in the trenches in Jeremy's age range in my age range and it rets age range who are saying hey listen.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The beginning is rough and it's a hard mental transition and skill transition and more than anything you need to know middle management is the hardest because the people above you still dictate a lot yet there's a lot more that are on your shoulders and so I think it's just kind of we're missing a lot of those pieces when we get into it and then when you work with guys like me.

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[SPEAKER_02]: the organizations I've been blessed to work with for the most part have been incredible in terms of they further implement.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But me coming in and doing training on a day or two days doesn't change the organization.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I just equip people with the right skill set.

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[SPEAKER_02]: If we work together over 12 months and I'm in every month, then we have the opportunity to really hold people accountable and continue to follow through.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's where a lot of organizations also drop the ball is they hire Mark to come in or ret comes in and we teach, you know, we spend a couple of days, we train this, everybody's equipped they're ready, okay, cool, go back to Jeremy, go back to Chris to your team and continue to implement it and Chris and Jeremy don't really know how to hold them accountable because they were never really trained to and so in three months it just goes back to exactly what it was.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's that whole mixture of things moving at once.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We really like you read the only people above us that were dating was Chris and Mark, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_04]: right think it's an interesting topic to segue into you know how surviving that kind of swim right you you talk a lot and we're learning how to swim quickly um is you emphasize the mental toughness and resilience part right a lot um in an era where like we talked about briefly before we started there's so much information out there and just everyone's telling you the right way to do it

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, how do we ultimately go about finding a way that in practical strategies that businesses can implement to help employees of all ages build a main team, that personal and professional resilience within their their own life, their own life?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's really two ways, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I will say this kind of leading in, we all had a conversation off air about sports.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And what I think the biggest challenge for read the generation following you and the one after that is there's a whole lot of helicopter and lawnmower parents that have robbed their children of the opportunity to be resilient.

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[SPEAKER_02]: because we've wanted the next generation to have an easier journey than we had, but by doing so, we removed too many obstacles that they failed to build resilience.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's gonna rely on red in Jeremy, and you like training people in the workplace of like, it's not gonna be easy, because resilience is only built by doing tough things, like that's kind of it, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: But there are things that we can do effectively to build resilience.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The first is implement a strong and consistent review system.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So back in 2004, there were scientists in researchers that were studying the Canadian swim team and what they looked at were the swimmers that they owed to make the Olympics.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So in the Olympic trials, they weren't good enough.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You've trained your entire life, you get to this point, you're not good enough.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And what they did is they hooked all the swimmers up to brain scans and they had them watch the race.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you can imagine what they saw, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Depression, the brain was firing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There was a lack of motor skills.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like they just physically, like you're watching your worst sports moment play out in front of you, like a fan and your body shuts down, your motivation levels decrease.

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[SPEAKER_02]: All sorts of, like the firing of where mental health comes in, I'll play them, but more than ethically, your body just kind of shuts down.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What's fascinating is they didn't look at that same group in a different setting and another group hooked him up to brain scans and before they watch the film they said we're going to watch the race.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But I want you to objectively review it like a coach I want you to break down your technique I want you to tell us what you did why you did it where you would change.

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[SPEAKER_02]: if you were to do it again.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So you actually work not a fan in the stands watching this horse moment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You were breaking it down critiquing it like a coach.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The fascinating thing is the brain fired up.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The emotional pain and turmoil that those swimmers felt in the original decreased dramatic.

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[SPEAKER_02]: not only that, but they saw the motor functions in the brain that program your muscles or hands of feet started to light up, which showed them that the swimmers were actually more motivated to get back in the water and change things, improve their technique.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And what these researchers discovered is that resilience is lost without review.

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[SPEAKER_02]: When we don't take the time to objectively step back and understand what we did well in the process, where there's room for improvement, how we can improve, we lose our ability to build resilience.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We can't bounce from loss to loss to loss.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You have to take the loss step back and say, okay, what did I do well in this?

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[SPEAKER_02]: There's good somewhere.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What do I do better next time?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so the first piece of it is creating a system where when employee messes up, like we talk about what went into this decision, why you made this decision?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about what we do differently next time from a leadership standpoint, this is vital.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because sometimes the team member makes a mistake because we didn't equip them well enough, go into it, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: We weren't as good on the communications side.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The second piece of that goes back to talking about Carol Dweck in fixed mindset and growth mindset.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's being intentional about praising process.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So you think about a sales organization, how many times do we do the right thing and we don't get the sale?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because we don't control the sale.

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[SPEAKER_02]: By or may not be ready to buy, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: We can do everything right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But what happens is when we only focus on, did you get the sale or not get the sale?

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[SPEAKER_02]: We rob the opportunity to praise and strengthen their focus on what's in their control.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'll well prepared for you for that call.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Did you review in your car after you left that doctor's office, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: What did you learn?

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[SPEAKER_02]: What will you do differently in the next time you follow?

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[SPEAKER_02]: What's something you learn?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like all of the things that are in their control?

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[SPEAKER_02]: rewarded behaviors repeated behavior.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so we have to get into a habit of praising process because we tend to focus on the outcome, which is where we need resilience, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: You lose the outcome, say we lose a project, we lose a client something, go well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And if we solely focus on that, our language doesn't go into what's actually in our control, we lose the ability to help strengthen their resilience by showing, hey, you did everything right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we still lose the game and if you played sports you noticed because there's games you won that you did not deserve to and there's games you lost that you played perfectly.

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[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Just happens.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But our ability is businesses and leaders and individuals is how do you continue to be more consistent in the long run, resilient to bounce back, then perfect.

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[SPEAKER_04]: No, I love it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I think it plays into everything else that you talk about and do, right?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Is building actionable steps in reviewing what you can do a lot of what I always preach is control the controllable, right?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Because there are thousands of things that you can't control.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes, including the outcome that happened.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And so let's look back at what we did, how we did it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: what are ways that we can improve that?

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[SPEAKER_04]: What were the great things that we did right like?

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, talking about those Canadian swimmers, you were ahead by, you know, three lengths or somewhat, what happened that we can review, you know, and let's look at that first part where you did so well, you know?

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[SPEAKER_04]: So that's interesting.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And one of the things we did in EdTech too in our last organization where we all worked was if our system went down students couldn't learn right so that was a big deal that was that was like losing the sale essentially and what we used to do is get together and review what happened to cause the failure and when we first started doing it it was called a postmortem and we even changed our language from that to say it's just a look back review and in capital letters at the top.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the CTO put in there.

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[SPEAKER_04]: This is not a finger pointing exercise.

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[SPEAKER_04]: This is to review how we can find the error, fix it, and do better.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And it changed the language and people were more transparent, more honest.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Even in that small microcosm, showing that leadership that it was okay, that the failure occurred.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But let's not keep tripping in the same pothole, nearly where we can do that as being honest and transparent.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But this isn't, it's your fault.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's this happened, so even just that language, I think, kind of ties into what you're saying,

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, and that actually brought to mind.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I do a lot of work with sales teams as well as in the construction manufacturing industries and with them specifically on leadership.

17:53.089 --> 17:55.671
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the we were going through this session and talking about it.

17:55.871 --> 17:59.193
[SPEAKER_02]: One of my, I would say, students, they were going through our training program.

17:59.753 --> 18:02.695
[SPEAKER_02]: He mentioned he said, we always have a post-mortem when you finish a project.

18:02.875 --> 18:03.755
[SPEAKER_02]: Where do we miss budget?

18:04.135 --> 18:06.197
[SPEAKER_02]: Where we behind on time, like, what do we get wrong?

18:07.197 --> 18:12.258
[SPEAKER_02]: And he said until we worked together, I never considered actually going through what we did right in that.

18:12.959 --> 18:18.740
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, he still calls it a post-mortem, but he said, I got into a habit of telling our team like, hey, we crushed this.

18:18.900 --> 18:24.662
[SPEAKER_02]: We did this really well, because he said, I wouldn't even think in like, people would dread going through this.

18:24.942 --> 18:27.983
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if it's only what we messed up on and what we did poorly,

18:28.683 --> 18:30.545
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would he buy get excited about going to it?

18:30.686 --> 18:43.462
[SPEAKER_02]: But he said, if I can start using opportunities to praise my team of what we did well and to your point like what were the lessons learned, he said everybody started responding differently to those finished project meetings moving forward.

18:45.465 --> 18:46.126
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a great point.

18:46.646 --> 18:50.049
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember those meetings, Chris, and I... There it's me.

18:50.329 --> 18:50.930
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, you should.

18:51.230 --> 18:51.970
[SPEAKER_04]: You too, right?

18:52.371 --> 18:58.256
[SPEAKER_04]: But we did try to make them an open and honest forum to where, you know, to your point, Jake, we should dread them.

18:58.696 --> 19:04.641
[SPEAKER_04]: But we can't learn if we, if we don't look back and, you know, otherwise we're, what is it if you don't?

19:05.642 --> 19:06.282
[SPEAKER_04]: Beamed a repeat.

19:06.743 --> 19:08.624
[SPEAKER_04]: Study the pastor, do him to repeat it, right?

19:09.285 --> 19:12.808
[SPEAKER_04]: I took a minute to find as, you know, my past is slowing me down.

19:14.467 --> 19:19.147
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wonder how many leaders offer that opportunity to reflect, greatest.

19:20.369 --> 19:45.276
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... you don't know if we ran through one of the reasons that the four of us jell so well as we we kind of started before we started doing this as a podcast we're just doing it as a weekly pull up and and chat rate and and debrief and download and and uh... vent and and uh... i wonder if the reason that resonated so well with us is because we really weren't getting that you know and a leadership level right then

19:45.836 --> 19:46.797
[SPEAKER_01]: that ability to sit down.

19:46.817 --> 19:49.900
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how many times have we said, well, let's take a step back and look at this.

19:51.261 --> 19:56.545
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have that professionally, do you search it out and find it with mentors, with, you know, with peer groups.

19:57.046 --> 20:05.032
[SPEAKER_02]: You hope you hope what often happens is you end up just having a weekly, happy or complaint fast, right?

20:05.272 --> 20:07.514
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, and that's not really the most productive.

20:07.634 --> 20:08.435
[SPEAKER_02]: You submit either.

20:08.655 --> 20:09.536
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you run into that.

20:12.195 --> 20:30.816
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the reason we struggle with this probably goes back to what we talked about market and we're talking about the very beginning as well is a lot of people aren't trained right on the leadership side, but then we come into the leadership relationship whether you're being led or you're leading with the expectation of I can't make a mistake.

20:31.723 --> 20:39.833
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, the leader, we all do, and you get promoted, we put the pressure on ourselves that I have to have all the answers now because people are looking to me because I've been promoted.

20:40.473 --> 20:45.319
[SPEAKER_02]: On the same side, the person you report to, you immediately think they have everything figured out.

20:45.820 --> 20:47.321
[SPEAKER_02]: You have the expectation they know at all.

20:47.962 --> 20:50.023
[SPEAKER_02]: the reality they don't, right?

20:50.664 --> 20:59.008
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when you believe the person above you has all of the answers, you don't want to appear like you don't, or you have questions, or you can turn.

20:59.649 --> 21:05.332
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when you're, when you assume you have to have all the answers, your ego is like you got to protect that image at all costs.

21:06.192 --> 21:10.975
[SPEAKER_02]: So these kind of healthy conversations don't happen because we're putting

21:16.614 --> 21:20.639
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the best mindset a leader should have is, how do I just be a work in progress?

21:21.540 --> 21:22.681
[SPEAKER_02]: I can be vulnerable with that.

21:22.841 --> 21:24.043
[SPEAKER_02]: I can connect with my team.

21:24.824 --> 21:29.029
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't have to have all the answers because I can figure it out or I can find people on our team who do.

21:29.810 --> 21:33.134
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, that's way more valuable from that standpoint than anything else.

21:36.706 --> 21:41.029
[SPEAKER_04]: And even saying that out loud, too, to your teams, I think, helps as well.

21:41.529 --> 21:44.150
[SPEAKER_04]: It's one thing to know it, but to help reinforce that.

21:44.170 --> 21:45.451
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I don't have all the answers.

21:45.991 --> 21:47.432
[SPEAKER_04]: This should be bidirectional, right?

21:47.512 --> 21:50.113
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that starts to break down those barriers, too.

21:50.233 --> 21:56.277
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, for those of us who are a little more seasoned to your point earlier, we didn't start off like we knew all of this stuff.

21:57.598 --> 22:12.039
[SPEAKER_04]: Mark, I would say for both of us, we kind of fell forward and learned these things and trial and error and I think being able to push that downward and help people learn that and say there's there's lots of things we can all learn together, I think is really important it opens up a safe space for that discussion as well.

22:12.420 --> 22:12.600
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

22:17.659 --> 22:39.798
[SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't do a new leader's head, well, shoot or hopefully even some existing leaders heads with his message and and can he get them to approach their interaction with their team with some some level, gosh, what do you, you kind of talk about the principles of mindset and intentionality right if they're able to, you know,

22:40.879 --> 22:44.923
[SPEAKER_01]: get it in their head that they're going to start transforming this environment.

22:45.663 --> 22:56.032
[SPEAKER_01]: And what kind of advice would you give them in terms of what to focus on that would really be impactful, either in the immediate or the long term with their fobs?

22:56.232 --> 22:58.014
[SPEAKER_01]: What are what folks looking for?

22:58.054 --> 22:59.555
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going to resonate most with them?

23:00.016 --> 23:00.656
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's funny.

23:01.277 --> 23:03.318
[SPEAKER_02]: The lead better now, book I wrote is

23:04.965 --> 23:06.706
[SPEAKER_02]: There's, I mean, I've got a library behind me, right?

23:06.746 --> 23:08.326
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some incredible leadership books.

23:08.526 --> 23:10.027
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of them talk about things.

23:10.127 --> 23:12.288
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go, Jared, oh, there we go, guys.

23:12.948 --> 23:13.688
[SPEAKER_02]: Love it, love it.

23:14.148 --> 23:17.970
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of books out there, though, that are like, how do we cast vision?

23:18.650 --> 23:20.891
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, leading the organization.

23:20.931 --> 23:27.153
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I wrote that book, it was like, I'm writing to people who are in the deep end that just need a life jacket.

23:27.958 --> 23:28.619
[SPEAKER_02]: or a preserver.

23:28.719 --> 23:31.722
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's a million things to your leadership journey.

23:31.762 --> 23:34.225
[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, the most important were leading yourself.

23:34.905 --> 23:40.671
[SPEAKER_02]: But then what I think most people miss, connect with your people and focus on giving a better feedback.

23:40.951 --> 23:46.417
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you can do those two things, because what the stat I mentioned at the beginning, right?

23:46.437 --> 23:49.901
[SPEAKER_02]: 71% of people who left their job did it because they didn't feel appreciated or got feedback.

23:50.747 --> 24:03.711
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen stats that over 35% of people report only getting feedback once a year and the joke I make is like, you might as well call that a proctology exam because nobody looks forward to any, and a handful of like feedback meeting, right?

24:04.591 --> 24:06.192
[SPEAKER_02]: And then most people have to wait a quarter.

24:06.392 --> 24:06.512
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

24:06.952 --> 24:22.506
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the most simple straightforward way to change your culture is set aside 10 to 15 minutes a few days a week to just have a cup of coffee with someone on your team and get to know them as a person because you then make them feel valued and make them feel seen.

24:23.227 --> 24:26.429
[SPEAKER_02]: And that, at the end of the day, is a human core component we all want that.

24:26.629 --> 24:33.552
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if you can make someone feel valued and seen and not just a cog in the wheel or a number on payroll, it's going to change how they see you.

24:33.772 --> 24:40.776
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, Harvard wrote that we communicate for two reasons to share information or to learn information and to increase like ability.

24:41.216 --> 24:44.998
[SPEAKER_02]: And the way you increase like ability is to ask a question and a really good follow-up.

24:45.813 --> 24:55.461
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if, you know, we get to talk in Mark and I, we were chatting hockey when he and I connected and we were talking stars and abs and we're, you know, all of the fun of play off hockey.

24:55.501 --> 25:02.946
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we kind of went down the thread a little bit and then emails back and forth were still on it, but those little things show genuine interest in each other.

25:03.988 --> 25:09.550
[SPEAKER_02]: because we ask questions and follow up questions and keep going and right now talking boysy before we got online.

25:09.911 --> 25:13.032
[SPEAKER_02]: Like little things like that, most people overlook.

25:13.712 --> 25:20.215
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the layer on top of that is just getting into a habit of giving good feedback and not just when you get somebody in trouble.

25:20.955 --> 25:22.596
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a tough one.

25:23.196 --> 25:24.337
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk generationally.

25:24.517 --> 25:27.398
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's a tough one for older generations.

25:27.478 --> 25:29.319
[SPEAKER_02]: I think sometimes to get on board with.

25:34.265 --> 25:36.707
[SPEAKER_02]: and the way we were raised was just do your job.

25:37.427 --> 25:39.349
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, 100% understand it.

25:40.009 --> 25:43.352
[SPEAKER_02]: I am like, I was not praised for getting good grades in school.

25:43.372 --> 25:44.513
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my parents expected it.

25:44.753 --> 25:48.856
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're not gonna pray, we're gonna get on to you if you don't, but like, but at the same time,

25:50.347 --> 25:59.410
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're the A student in class, and the teacher never says anything to you, and they make it a really big deal when the D student suddenly makes a C, you kind of feel invisible.

25:59.970 --> 26:01.130
[SPEAKER_02]: And you kind of feel frustrated.

26:01.771 --> 26:09.133
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're a high performer in an environment, you want to be around other high performers, and you want to be appreciated for being a high performer, even if it's called your job.

26:10.110 --> 26:17.257
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, when we start to understand that and can just get in the habit of like, hey, Rhett, I see you doing this consistently and I appreciate Jeremy.

26:17.617 --> 26:21.321
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, we had tech issues, but man, you jump back on it, you own it, you got everything fixed.

26:21.361 --> 26:24.284
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm gonna call it out specifically and I'm gonna praise you on it.

26:24.664 --> 26:28.448
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I can connect it to my values and our company values, it's even more important.

26:28.468 --> 26:28.528
[SPEAKER_05]: No.

26:29.560 --> 26:32.363
[SPEAKER_02]: That will transform a culture more than anything else you do.

26:32.443 --> 26:34.324
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not new products, it's not new strategy.

26:34.384 --> 26:42.171
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, man, you know your people, you make them feel valued and you get them better rhythm of giving a positive along with that constructive feedback.

26:42.792 --> 26:45.174
[SPEAKER_02]: You start to transform how they see you and how they work.

26:45.374 --> 26:47.135
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what changes organizations.

26:47.196 --> 26:48.236
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

26:49.227 --> 26:49.647
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.

26:49.668 --> 26:50.648
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

26:51.249 --> 26:55.373
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anybody on this call would ever accuse me of not being personable.

26:55.433 --> 27:05.002
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I have to consciously try to find the balance act between the water cooler conversation and actually talking about driving, you know, driving improvement.

27:05.903 --> 27:18.567
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I'll tell you, since we've got you near the guru, I've got a, I've got a, I've got a stalwart on my team and it's like, it's like hit the nail on the head to try to get anything beyond just the facts.

27:19.027 --> 27:19.867
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm here for it.

27:19.907 --> 27:20.627
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm doing.

27:21.207 --> 27:23.208
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and to try to connect with this person.

27:23.568 --> 27:25.509
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I literally bang my head on the wall.

27:26.029 --> 27:30.290
[SPEAKER_01]: Really like him, but I haven't figured out how to make that connection and I don't, I don't, I don't.

27:31.370 --> 27:32.930
[SPEAKER_01]: 300 and some odd folks that I've managed.

27:32.990 --> 27:34.991
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say he's he's my challenge.

27:35.511 --> 27:38.551
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can't figure out, would you have any advice for somebody like me?

27:38.991 --> 27:40.892
[SPEAKER_02]: So that that is his personal.

27:40.912 --> 27:41.292
[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny.

27:41.512 --> 27:43.492
[SPEAKER_02]: I have aspects of that personality.

27:43.792 --> 27:44.332
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a few of it.

27:44.372 --> 27:46.233
[SPEAKER_02]: Like tell me what it is where we need to go.

27:46.293 --> 27:47.093
[SPEAKER_02]: What we want to get done.

27:47.133 --> 27:47.833
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I care about.

27:47.873 --> 27:48.693
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm care about the rest of it.

27:48.733 --> 27:50.333
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't care about the relational side.

27:50.353 --> 27:51.474
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, let me just execute.

27:51.674 --> 27:51.874
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?

27:51.914 --> 27:52.654
[SPEAKER_02]: There's those people.

27:53.754 --> 27:54.874
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's still a human element.

27:55.094 --> 27:57.535
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, even though I'm that kind of like, let's like, I'm

28:00.571 --> 28:04.252
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, right now, we can talk, you know, Statue of Liberty Trickplace all day.

28:04.272 --> 28:04.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we keep it.

28:04.932 --> 28:06.553
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can tell you about football games I go to.

28:06.913 --> 28:09.253
[SPEAKER_02]: And Margarine and I talked, like, I went to the Stars game.

28:09.293 --> 28:10.194
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a terrible decision.

28:10.214 --> 28:12.434
[SPEAKER_02]: We got murdered, like, there's little things.

28:12.494 --> 28:16.636
[SPEAKER_02]: But what we have to do is look for the pockets of when we can do that.

28:17.436 --> 28:21.357
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that individual is probably so focused on the execution side.

28:22.680 --> 28:45.073
[SPEAKER_02]: they may or may or may not be very technically driven but like the interpersonal aspect can sometimes feel like it take away unless it's during lunch unless it's during a time or not working on something right where I don't feel like I need to be I've got to be honest hey good to see you let me go here I went to go get a couple of water versus hey I'm sitting in the table I'm going to have lunch or if we're virtual

28:45.833 --> 28:49.695
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, when you grab your lunch, like, I'm going to send you some door to ask today.

28:49.875 --> 28:52.357
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to send you a sandwich from Jim and John's Tell me what you want.

28:52.437 --> 28:53.117
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to get one.

28:53.697 --> 28:55.538
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just hop on here on teens or zoom.

28:56.119 --> 28:58.680
[SPEAKER_02]: And while we're having lunch, like, I just want to kind of get to know you.

28:59.380 --> 29:00.481
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, tell me a little bit, right?

29:01.241 --> 29:05.464
[SPEAKER_02]: Or worst case, I might stalk him a little bit on Facebook and LinkedIn.

29:06.485 --> 29:08.589
[SPEAKER_02]: and say like, did you post about your kids?

29:09.050 --> 29:09.851
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have kids?

29:10.612 --> 29:11.314
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you like to do that?

29:11.334 --> 29:11.875
[SPEAKER_02]: It's how to work.

29:11.895 --> 29:18.607
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, something to give me some, all I need is a crack in the door, because then I just wanna ask you about it.

29:20.029 --> 29:24.930
[SPEAKER_02]: And then if I can ask you about it and I can listen intently, I can try to pull at a follow-up question.

29:25.350 --> 29:29.332
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I can pull at a follow-up question, I might have an opportunity for a second follow-up question.

29:29.912 --> 29:34.973
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where you start to increase your likability with them is that first and second follow-up question.

29:34.993 --> 29:37.934
[SPEAKER_02]: And it may not be at first, it may be like pounding the stone, right?

29:37.974 --> 29:39.274
[SPEAKER_02]: You just gotta wear them down.

29:40.315 --> 29:44.956
[SPEAKER_02]: But what you just wanna do is not worry about how do I get them to open up to me?

29:45.816 --> 29:48.617
[SPEAKER_02]: All you should think about is how do I make sure they feel valued?

29:49.715 --> 29:50.917
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not about us.

29:51.117 --> 29:58.109
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like in a very separate arena, it's the reason leader struggle giving tough feedback.

29:58.946 --> 30:02.107
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the leader, it's not the giving the feedback, right?

30:02.147 --> 30:08.328
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not helping the other person we're concerned with, we're concerned with their response, hurting us in a social dynamic, right?

30:08.368 --> 30:18.790
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why the most selfish thing a leader can do is withhold feedback that helps someone and their team get better because they're worried I might hurt their feelings, or they may not ask me to happy out, or they may not like me, right?

30:19.350 --> 30:22.111
[SPEAKER_02]: The focus is on the wrong part of the relationship.

30:22.651 --> 30:34.691
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm not saying your focus is on the wrong part of the relationship, but sometimes we feel like if it's not reciprocal, if we're getting what we need from them back, feel like hell I'm supposed to continue making deposits in it.

30:35.540 --> 30:37.522
[SPEAKER_02]: But I look at it like a bamboo tree, right?

30:37.542 --> 30:45.229
[SPEAKER_02]: When you're a leader, your job is to plant the seed, care for the seed, water, give it sunlight, and at some point it's gonna sprout.

30:45.510 --> 30:53.657
[SPEAKER_02]: It may be five years down the road, but you just wanna make sure that that person feels valued on their team because they may not be expressive.

30:53.718 --> 30:56.660
[SPEAKER_02]: They may struggle with interpersonal communication and connection.

30:57.521 --> 31:04.106
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you continually ask about them, like you're just sending subliminal notes that, hey, I appreciate you.

31:04.206 --> 31:05.127
[SPEAKER_02]: You're valued here.

31:05.787 --> 31:07.188
[SPEAKER_02]: I want you to know you're part of the team.

31:07.709 --> 31:09.450
[SPEAKER_02]: And eventually, you might wear them down.

31:09.490 --> 31:10.030
[SPEAKER_02]: You may not.

31:10.791 --> 31:13.293
[SPEAKER_02]: But your responsibility is not in how they respond.

31:13.333 --> 31:13.413
[SPEAKER_02]: Your

31:18.453 --> 31:18.954
[SPEAKER_01]: That's hard.

31:19.014 --> 31:25.118
[SPEAKER_02]: If you seem like a very personable friendly guy, and I can imagine that's a struggle when it's not reciprocated.

31:25.599 --> 31:34.866
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I know that's a tough spot to be in, but I would just challenge, okay, how do I, how do I worry less about how they respond and more just how can I make them feel this way?

31:35.899 --> 31:36.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, sure.

31:36.540 --> 31:39.842
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I always kind of associated it with trust right now.

31:39.862 --> 31:43.545
[SPEAKER_01]: I want the team to especially, you know, remote virtual environment.

31:43.565 --> 31:45.306
[SPEAKER_01]: I want the team to feel like they trust me enough.

31:45.326 --> 31:56.394
[SPEAKER_01]: They can bring issues, roadblocks, problems, and, and, you know, if I've got that kind of free flowing dynamic with folks, I kind of, you know, work with these upshooker, they can bring stuff to me.

31:57.455 --> 31:59.136
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of, I work that way.

31:59.897 --> 32:01.858
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of us are like, I'm going to handle it on my own.

32:01.878 --> 32:02.899
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to go get it done.

32:03.660 --> 32:03.860
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

32:05.647 --> 32:06.748
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I like your take on that.

32:06.808 --> 32:07.268
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it.

32:07.288 --> 32:10.411
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me pick your break your control and the controllable there, too.

32:10.471 --> 32:14.694
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, you're focusing on not not the outcome, but what what you should be doing and why.

32:14.714 --> 32:18.357
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's all we can do right in the long run.

32:18.417 --> 32:19.418
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the hardest thing.

32:19.518 --> 32:29.186
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we talked off air, book for, you know, I wrote around this idea that we're obsessed with being the best and the best is a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a moving target.

32:30.287 --> 32:32.108
[SPEAKER_02]: And on outcomes outside of our control.

32:32.869 --> 32:34.650
[SPEAKER_02]: It was interesting literally this afternoon.

32:35.879 --> 32:40.282
[SPEAKER_02]: I was listening to a podcast and they were interviewing Eli Manning, so we've talked sports a little bit.

32:40.322 --> 32:42.963
[SPEAKER_02]: I love sports for our listeners that are just picking up on them.

32:43.544 --> 32:46.426
[SPEAKER_02]: And Eli talked about, you know, he's five years younger than Peyton.

32:47.706 --> 32:49.367
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, imagine being Peyton's younger brother.

32:49.527 --> 32:53.250
[SPEAKER_02]: Peyton was high school player of the year, Gatorie played at your Heisman candidate.

32:53.530 --> 32:54.631
[SPEAKER_02]: Number one, pick in the draft.

32:54.931 --> 32:56.412
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the best quarterbacks of all time.

32:56.432 --> 32:59.954
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I know in high school I could not be Peyton.

33:00.892 --> 33:01.492
[SPEAKER_02]: I just knew it.

33:02.113 --> 33:06.375
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was like, if I tried to be Peyton, I was always gonna be disappointed.

33:07.215 --> 33:11.078
[SPEAKER_02]: And he said, so at some point in my life, I was like, I just wanna be the best me.

33:11.278 --> 33:14.860
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanna play to my strengths, I wanna be a great team in, I wanna help my teammates win games.

33:14.920 --> 33:17.201
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, I just took that my whole life.

33:18.201 --> 33:24.385
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that's a really interesting focus because it wasn't on outcomes outside of his control.

33:25.381 --> 33:31.266
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know one of the things we kind of casually talked a little bit about is like the idea of like burnout and where leaders and teams burn out.

33:32.247 --> 33:39.613
[SPEAKER_02]: But when it comes to this kind of stuff right, I think we burn out because we focus and fix it too much on outcomes that are beyond our control.

33:40.494 --> 33:47.900
[SPEAKER_02]: And on being something that we don't have the skillset to be right and and so I think that's where leaders get into trouble.

33:48.843 --> 33:55.686
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because Jeremy, you lead a very, I can just tell in your person now, you lead a very specific way, but I know other leaders who like, they're the complete opposite.

33:56.586 --> 33:58.467
[SPEAKER_02]: But what do you try to find are the common grounds?

33:58.527 --> 33:59.407
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I know my people?

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[SPEAKER_02]: How do I give feedback?

34:00.347 --> 34:01.808
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I be consistent here, right?

34:02.348 --> 34:09.731
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's what we try to look for in this game is not the things out of our control of what someone else does, what their talents are.

34:10.511 --> 34:14.953
[SPEAKER_02]: What is going to happen in front of sales and comments like, what are we doing to focus on our inputs?

34:15.313 --> 34:30.703
[SPEAKER_02]: how are we rewarding our inputs, how are we making deposits in our team and that is the hardest thing in public companies because you have boards to answer to and stakeholders and in private companies because small private companies it feels like it's always on your back but like if you look at the long game

34:31.660 --> 34:33.161
[SPEAKER_02]: You're always going to have wins and losses.

34:34.081 --> 34:35.021
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have both.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But the people who tend to do the best in the long run are the ones who are like, how do I become my best and focus on what's in my control in the situation?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the better you get at that, the better you tend to perform over the long run because you put yourself in more prime situations and opportunities you're more prepared to take advantage of them.

34:55.408 --> 35:05.878
[SPEAKER_02]: And you don't waste a lot of energy and emotion and focus and effort, complaining, whining, venting about things outside of your control, you're channelling it toward things that are more productive.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yep, you focus it on the wins, wherever they are, even if the wins are within the losses in your build on them.

35:11.863 --> 35:14.766
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you're going to experience the loss, you might as well pull something valuable out of it.

35:14.826 --> 35:15.287
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

35:15.307 --> 35:17.409
[SPEAKER_04]: We had all the sacks in that game and there's that.

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[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

35:22.223 --> 35:32.789
[SPEAKER_04]: Jake, what I hear you saying is we've really got a kind of encourage a growth mindset, build a culture of continuous improvement, but like with the case of Jeremy's employee, how do we implement that?

35:32.849 --> 35:40.473
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's I understand meeting them where they are, but how do we make sure that everyone as a group, whether you're a leader or you're evolving into a leader?

35:40.493 --> 35:47.957
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you kind of encourage that that growth mindset, that that willingness to evolve to learn?

35:48.357 --> 35:48.957
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I've met

35:52.119 --> 35:53.220
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't need to learn anything else.

35:53.300 --> 35:54.881
[SPEAKER_04]: I've kept out.

35:55.221 --> 35:59.924
[SPEAKER_04]: My mother said that to me once and I'm like, I don't ever want to hear that from everyone.

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[SPEAKER_04]: How do we do that?

36:02.325 --> 36:07.228
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you get that going and evolve that so that they keep growing along with the content?

36:07.268 --> 36:07.848
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's funny.

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[SPEAKER_02]: One of my former 101 executive coaching clients, the first month I worked with him in his organization, told me,

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[SPEAKER_02]: You just can't change my stripes.

36:19.116 --> 36:19.656
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it, okay.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.

36:21.898 --> 36:26.984
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's interesting is he, over the course of the next year, his stripes changed.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Slow, painful.

36:30.667 --> 36:33.070
[SPEAKER_02]: His ego still got in the way sometimes.

36:33.110 --> 36:36.193
[SPEAKER_02]: He made some decisions he shouldn't have, but we saw growth.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And what I did is I called out that growth every time I saw it.

36:40.891 --> 36:45.495
[SPEAKER_02]: So like his leaders, the way we help facilitate a growth mindset is too full, right?

36:45.555 --> 36:46.576
[SPEAKER_02]: We praise process.

36:47.197 --> 36:48.838
[SPEAKER_02]: We praise process.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, study and sports psychology showed kids, two groups of kids, kids, group A were praise for hits, point scored, games won, all outcome based.

36:59.538 --> 37:04.621
[SPEAKER_02]: Kids in Group B were praised for effort, coachability, resilience, how you respond to a setback.

37:05.621 --> 37:08.343
[SPEAKER_02]: What they found is over the course of these kids' careers.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Kids in Group B developed a fixed mindset, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Mom and Dad's love were associated with how many hits I got, which means if I go three for three, I'm loved more than if I go over three.

37:18.308 --> 37:26.512
[SPEAKER_02]: Kids in Group B, they were praised for process, understood parents were proud of the things that were in their control and valued those, so they worked harder, right?

37:26.532 --> 37:28.053
[SPEAKER_02]: They were coachable, they did these pieces.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The studies on adults are still being worth, but I can imagine we're not very different.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like a lot of us are still big kids at heart.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the better we get at praising process, when you have a salesperson who just cannot close the deal, but God, they're in early every morning.

37:48.241 --> 37:49.721
[SPEAKER_02]: They are making the calls.

37:50.342 --> 37:55.465
[SPEAKER_02]: They could have had the worst group of leads we've ever seen, we don't know it, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: But when we can praise them for the consistency, when we can ask them questions what they're learning, when we can sit in and say, how are you implementing this?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then call that out, as well as when we have the opportunity

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[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I see in you, like that's how you encourage a growth mindset because for a lot of our employees, regardless of where we work, there's a lot of people who have never been told like, I see more in you than you see in yourself or I see more in you than you're capable of, and that will change how someone shows up.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's simple and as silly as that is, like I always think back to when I was starting my speaking career, that's like 2017.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was struggling.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to imposter syndrome that a lot of people go through in all sorts of phases of life and I was just kind of having that day and I was talking to my coach of like, I'm going into the space and I feel like everybody in this space is homeless or overcame drug addictions or their amputees or they've done something crazy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have any of these stories and my coach kind of laughed.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And he said, how many people in your audience you think have those crazy stories?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Probably not many, it's like, right, they probably don't.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So where are you a like them and how can you connect with them?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then he told me the one thing I'll never forget.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He put both hands on my shoulder and said, we have high expectations for you.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is the guy that has coached some of the biggest names in this industry.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And just the words, we have high expectations of you, changed how I saw myself.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I started saying, like, I'm doing this for real.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm taking this very seriously.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's like, we underestimate sometimes looking into someone and either saying what we have from an expectation standpoint or what we see in them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is because we get caught comparing ourselves to the wrong things.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Some people grow up and they've never had somebody look into them and tell them they believe in them or they're proud of them and all these things.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And you want to change someone's growth mindset.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You paint a picture of what could be or what they're capable of that they haven't considered.

39:57.234 --> 40:00.877
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the way we do that is we praise process that's 100% in their control.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then we look for opportunities to call out or just make them aware of potential.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's hard because what does that mean?

40:09.815 --> 40:11.316
[SPEAKER_02]: We as leaders have to pay attention.

40:12.177 --> 40:18.442
[SPEAKER_02]: That means we as leaders have to do the extra work to be specific about calling out positive feedback.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But see, that's the difference because if you think about every grade leader we've had or mentor a coach, it's not a bent about their skill set.

40:27.110 --> 40:31.133
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been about what they've seen in us, what they've held us to and what they've helped us grow into.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's what we want, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: They hold us accountable.

40:35.518 --> 40:39.460
[SPEAKER_02]: When you hold somebody at counter was like, hey, I believe you're capable of this standard.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna see you reach it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: When you don't reach it, we're gonna have a good conversation.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it's not gonna be a fun conversation because I want you to see more for yourself than you do right now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's how we start to do it, right?

40:49.526 --> 40:53.248
[SPEAKER_02]: We get into a habit of consistently giving feedback that praises process.

40:53.748 --> 41:00.932
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we look for moments to call out potential and opportunity for growth that a lot of people may not have considered for themselves.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Does that help answer your question there, Chris?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it does.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a lot to keep the honest here, but I think a lot of it also is the delivery as much as the message, right?

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you can still be honest and transparent and deliberate, but have a sense of grace, a sense of empathy, leaving a room for growth, leaving room for improvement to your point.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's something that was lost for a long time.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I used to tell a story with with my employees that when I first, I was the first one to go to college.

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[SPEAKER_04]: First one to work in a corporate environment.

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[SPEAKER_04]: My dad's in old school Italian.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, when I went into the corporate world, his advice to me was to keep my big mouth shut.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, I just totally shut that out.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And as I got older and learn, what he really meant was listen more and talk less and you're going to learn something.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, it's the exact same message if you really break them down, but a completely different delivery and on a bigger scale to what you're saying.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's that's how you get people to keep learning because there's an appetite and willingness because they're not getting beaten up or just hearing that they're bad.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And to that point as well, it goes back to a little bit of what Jeremy and I were kind of riffing on of like just getting into the rhythm of knowing people.

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[SPEAKER_02]: changes how some of those deliveries are interpreted like if we know each other really well like I'll understand how you communicate the way you say because we all have those people right like football coach growing up like stern gruff guy but he was that way personally and I grew up down the street from my old head football coach so like I knew listen to what he's saying not necessarily how he's saying

42:39.984 --> 42:46.272
[SPEAKER_02]: But because I knew him, people that didn't know him, they're listening to how he says it, not necessarily what he says.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's where I think getting to know your people, you'll have to be buddy buddy, but at least getting to know him a little bit is helpful in that regard.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had a coat that used to say, do what I mean now, what I say, and it was all it's difficult.

43:01.463 --> 43:09.068
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that intentionality around bringing folks up, working to bring folks up to the level that you know they can achieve that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you do you ever run into potential issues, uh, you know, particularly maybe and start up type environments where even if you're even if you're moving forward with positive intent.

43:23.141 --> 43:37.528
[SPEAKER_01]: you're trying to get folks to operate up to hear you know they can but you run the risk of just running them where I get burning them out is there is there kind of a happy medium that you can find there in terms of pulling them up but making sure that they find that balance.

43:38.108 --> 43:49.173
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and what I mean pulling them up it isn't necessarily like grinding you in the ground it just means operating with a level of excellence right and and what we do and I think with everything it's

43:51.252 --> 43:53.353
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, even with startups, there's seasonality.

43:53.833 --> 43:57.055
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also things that you can do to be mindful.

43:57.095 --> 43:59.976
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of the organizations that worked with grew rapidly.

44:00.016 --> 44:03.618
[SPEAKER_02]: They went from like two million a year to 12.

44:04.378 --> 44:05.159
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they were over 20.

44:05.739 --> 44:07.800
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was a rapid growth, a lot of onboarding.

44:08.802 --> 44:10.263
[SPEAKER_02]: But man, they celebrated well.

44:11.003 --> 44:20.548
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they would, they would run out like a beach day at a really nice hotel on a Saturday and treat all the employees, bring your spouse come out like we're just gonna spend a day at the beach plane.

44:21.209 --> 44:26.071
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you wanna go into the office early and make some calls, great, be up, but I want you out here, right?

44:26.611 --> 44:28.512
[SPEAKER_02]: They look for opportunities, man.

44:29.593 --> 44:32.494
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it wasn't just the top sales performers that got rewarded.

44:32.534 --> 44:33.555
[SPEAKER_02]: It was hey, the admin.

44:33.875 --> 44:36.876
[SPEAKER_02]: We got we got a sweet tonight for the NBA game.

44:36.916 --> 44:40.577
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I want you and you because y'all are you do a lot of work that are under appreciate.

44:40.597 --> 44:42.178
[SPEAKER_02]: We want you feel like you want to go.

44:42.258 --> 44:45.059
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to take that off, take that off, but like you want to go.

44:45.579 --> 44:48.080
[SPEAKER_02]: So they look for opportunities to reward them in that growth.

44:49.100 --> 44:56.323
[SPEAKER_02]: I think where the challenge of where we burn people out is we expect a constant sprint and pace.

44:57.391 --> 45:04.813
[SPEAKER_02]: and we probably don't communicate either the seasonality of it, or we don't help build in rest, right?

45:05.093 --> 45:10.695
[SPEAKER_02]: And a very simple example of this from a leadership standpoint is setting expectations for communication.

45:11.575 --> 45:14.176
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I call you, it's an emergency.

45:14.975 --> 45:19.157
[SPEAKER_02]: If I email you, I don't need to hear it for 24, but what happens, right?

45:19.197 --> 45:26.340
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're at a start-up or you're like me in a small team, sometimes I'm working on a Friday night or a Saturday.

45:27.180 --> 45:33.843
[SPEAKER_02]: But if I email my team on a Friday night or Saturday, they may have the expectations they need to respond, which only amplifies the chance of burnout.

45:34.563 --> 45:35.704
[SPEAKER_02]: So what can I do, right?

45:35.904 --> 45:37.144
[SPEAKER_02]: One, I can communicate with you.

45:37.284 --> 45:38.665
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't look at your inbox all weekend.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Or I can pair that and say if I'm going to work on Friday in our Saturday, how do I schedule my email to send you on Monday morning at 8 a.m.

45:47.493 --> 45:54.398
[SPEAKER_02]: How do I help create space for you knowing you're automatically like, you know, always have to respond.

45:55.019 --> 46:07.128
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's on the leader to to understand that, but to also understand, especially in a startup and smaller organizations like nobody runs as fast as the founder for the most part, right?

46:07.168 --> 46:15.294
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's going to run as fast at the top, but you can't expect your teams to run as fast if A, they're not bought into the mission.

46:16.576 --> 46:22.058
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not some of the same, maybe revenue opportunities, long-share profit opportunities, but two.

46:22.078 --> 46:24.939
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, for some people, it's just a job.

46:25.540 --> 46:30.922
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's 100% okay because you need those people that are just a job, but how do you make them feel valued?

46:31.622 --> 46:37.865
[SPEAKER_02]: Hold them to a high standard of the work they do, but support their growth personally and professionally as well.

46:39.161 --> 46:44.444
[SPEAKER_03]: So Jake, thank you so much for all the insights that you shared today for all of our listeners.

46:44.764 --> 46:49.007
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, Jake will help leaders build the mindset to get those winning results.

46:49.567 --> 46:54.230
[SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of it is having that process, you know, celebrate the process.

46:54.530 --> 47:04.376
[SPEAKER_03]: You can be found at Jakeaetounsen.com, and there you can subscribe to his newsletter's podcast and especially in the books,

47:07.798 --> 47:09.599
[SPEAKER_03]: Jake, the app of our team.

47:09.699 --> 47:11.521
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for joining us.

47:12.141 --> 47:12.641
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, guys.

47:12.741 --> 47:13.322
[SPEAKER_02]: This was fun.

47:13.522 --> 47:14.803
[SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy the time.

47:14.943 --> 47:17.985
[SPEAKER_02]: Fun questions and a little bit of sports ban are along the way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

47:20.106 --> 47:20.767
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

47:21.667 --> 47:22.608
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much, Jake.

47:22.628 --> 47:23.989
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to probably talk you all night.

47:24.009 --> 47:24.890
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for sharing the time.

47:24.910 --> 47:25.350
[SPEAKER_04]: Appreciate it.

47:26.880 --> 47:29.981
[SPEAKER_04]: And that brings another episode of the generational exchange to a close.

47:30.141 --> 47:35.902
[SPEAKER_04]: We are so grateful you joined our intergenerational conversation and we hope it sparks some new ways of thinking about business.

47:36.342 --> 47:38.243
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks again to Jake Thompson for joining us.

47:38.283 --> 47:40.483
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't forget to pick up his book, lead better now.

47:40.563 --> 47:41.764
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen to his podcast.

47:41.824 --> 47:43.864
[SPEAKER_04]: Did Gageum as a speaker to all those things.

47:44.244 --> 47:46.385
[SPEAKER_04]: He has a lot to teach everyone.

47:47.002 --> 47:51.947
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, don't forget to hit that subscribe button for more engaging conversations across generations.

47:52.267 --> 48:02.957
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you'd like to be a panelist, or if you have a business question that keeps up at night, or you want to tell us what you thought of the episode, let us know in the comments or email us at feedback at thegenerationalexchange.com.

48:03.678 --> 48:09.083
[SPEAKER_04]: Until next time, from all of us here at thegenerational exchange, thanks for listening and happy learning.